Reliance Retail’s Damodar Mall on Decoding Consumption Patterns in Retail with Data and Observation

Balbir Singh: 0:00

Hello and welcome to the episode 7 of For All Podcast with Great Place to Work India. I am Balbeer Singh, your host. I am the CEO of Great Place to Work India. Today I have uh Mr. Damodar Mal with me. He is the CEO of grocery retail business at Reliance Retail. Damodhar has been lifelong into consumer durables and consumer businesses after he graduated from I Am Bangalore. But we’ll know more about Dhamodar from Damodhar himself. So before I get started to my conversation, uh Damodhar, why don’t you tell us more about yourself, your journey at Reliance Retail and how it all started?

Damodal Mall: 0:38

Namaste Balbeer and Namaste everyone, good to be here. My journey is simple. After education, uh becoming an engineer and then an MBA, I turned my back on technology and started selling soap. This was Ashindusan Unilever. And if that was not low-tech enough, uh then from there I graduated to uh selling salt and sugar, which is in my retail journey. So these two are the phases uh uh of of my life, first first nine, ten years uh uh at Unilever, and that’s where in fact Unilever sent me on a project to uh Sao Paulo in Brazil. Uh that’s where retail happened to me because that’s the first time I saw uh an economy like ours, people like ours, simple, uh economically simple people, and yet being served by big stores like this, uh uh way back. And I said, if it can happen uh in Brazil, so why can’t it happen uh in India? So that’s when the retail bug uh bit me, and then I came back and created a business plan for actually what was called the Annapurna uh supermarket, which is uh generally was forward integration into uh retail. That took shape into my own retail venture and so on and so forth. And in this phase, for the last 12 years uh at uh at Reliance Retail, uh running smart bazaar stores like this, and uh uh serving the Indian customer in an omnichannel way, both through stores as well as through e-commerce.

Balbir Singh: 2:24

So that’s quite interesting. And uh before you even traveled to Brazil, what got you interested in you know joining a business like uh Unilever or consumer uh business and not focus on because when you were graduating, even IT was very big at that time, you know, a lot of technology services were being set up in India. So what got you interested in uh consumers?

Damodal Mall: 2:46

That got sorted early in life. Okay. Uh even my unusual for uh a BTEC, but even my final year project in uh uh at IIT was in market research for uh uh a packaging packaging product. Uh so the fact that I wanted to be in consumer business got sorted in my mind uh long uh long back, and I pursued that through my marketing specialization and I did it well, and the marketing goal at IM Bangalore. And then uh HUL was a natural place if you wanted to be in the consumer business. So that part was was completely fine. That choice got made uh early in life.

Balbir Singh: 3:32

Okay, okay, great. Uh India is at a you know uh very interesting uh place right now. The middle class is growing, expanding, the consumption behaviors are changing, and you also mentioned, you know, you are focusing on both Omnichannel and uh in in-store. So, what is your vision or how do you see the Indian middle class changing the behaviors or changing the market landscape for retail uh as genre?

Damodal Mall: 4:00

Our incomes are increasing. Yeah. At all levels. Different people are starting a different step of the ladder, but incomes are increasing. Uh uh and we’ve been a low-income country and incomes are increasing for for for almost everybody. What happens when your income increases? You can’t, you have to express it, right? Yeah, you can’t weigh your uh bank balance on your chest as a badge. The expression of our income, everyday expression of our income, is through our consumption behavior.

Balbir Singh: 4:32

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 4:32

Yeah. So, like we say in stores like this, now those are cultural markers of well-being.

Balbir Singh: 4:41

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 4:42

Yeah. It’s so consumption is a way by which we express our incomes and our happiness. Kiyab, you know, uh tangi come hai, kanabinacha hai through the choices that we make. We we uh we buy clothes more often, we eat more fruits, uh, and it naturally happens. So I think the biggest thing of uh uh uh the stores running, etc., is is a is a is a byproduct. The biggest thing is all of us as people want to express our rising incomes through products and services that we consume, the kind of experiences we we go for. Uh we don’t even realize it that you know uh for your uh we are in Mumbai and therefore uh for your Ashtavinayak Darshan, yeah, uh you would go in a bus earlier and now you start hiring uh uh an Innova and go with your family. Yeah, to me that’s an expression of today’s income. You and I will count it as oh, tourism increasing, yeah, uh well-being increasing, and things like that.

Balbir Singh: 5:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think uh what you are saying makes a lot of sense. You know, for us, when we I was growing up, you know, um having a candy or having an ice cream was once in a while, you know, during the festival season. Now we Indians are finding more reasons to celebrate. Uh so every day is a new thatyhohar for us, and uh and that’s exactly why because the disposable income is increasing.

Damodal Mall: 6:07

Festivals are not in short supply in India anyway. Absolutely. And what’s happening is we are learning to celebrate each other’s festival. Yeah, yeah. Uh uh growing up, uh I didn’t know what Onam was. Now I know, and I will never miss any year. My Onam Sadhya and my entire family look for looks forward to it. So we are learning to celebrate our festivals. All festivals are actually an excuse to party, yeah, yeah, to visit each other. Yeah, yeah. But we are learning to celebrate our neighbors’ festivals, yeah. Uh all these reasons and festivals may be you’re eating better, you’re eating new things, you’re buying new clothes, you’re visiting each other, you’re carrying gifts for each other. Uh that’s what retailers like us want people to do.

Balbir Singh: 6:51

And our festivals ensure that. So, you know, uh, since you have been in this uh retail business for many years, what are some of the changing behaviors that you see? You know, one is definitely you know more disposable income, but what exactly is changing at a more granular level in terms of buying patterns or uh the expectations of the consumer? What are some of the other changes that you see? And other thing that I wanted to correlate this with, how do you because what I want the uh listeners listening to us, how can they apply some of this in their own workplace? So, how do you ensure that your employees are up to speed with what’s changing in the bigger ecosystem? So that you are up to speed as a business, and how do we cater to those needs of our customers?

Damodal Mall: 7:36

You know, the advantage of consumer business is uh if your antenna is up, you are able to see how people behave uh around you. Yeah, around you and around stores like this in your own family. Yeah. So uh uh what I find is uh this customer is as much emerging uh when it comes to food, fashion, entertainment as she is asserting. So people are uptrading, people are buying new things, but at the same time they’re modernizing quickly, but they’re not westernizing in a hurry. We move from Panipuri on the street to what’s popularly called Bislari Panipuri in the malls.

Balbir Singh: 8:30

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 8:31

If hundred people move from Panipuri on the street to Panipuri uh uh Bisleri Panipuri in the malls, five people move from Panipuri to Nachos. Yeah, so everybody is moving up, but they’re not giving up on their tales of Indian street food, uh, the trails of Indian favorite cuisines, uh, the sensibilities in fashion, even when silhouettes are changing, yeah, the patterns and colors remain vibrant, as you can see, the vibrant colors surrounding us. What we consume in entertainment, we are not going uh blind towards what the global or Western world has to offer us as for entertainment. In fact, what we watch is entertainment created here is getting modernized to our taste. So, as much an emerging market and a consumer as it is an asserting market in many, many uh many many fields, people are buying more jewelry and not so much more uh uh luxury branded had handbags. Yeah, yeah, handbags have to compete with global handbag brands have to compete with jewelry here, and jewelry wins and how.

Balbir Singh: 9:37

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 9:38

So everything is growing, but if you know this difference that this customer will assert and uh will not give up her uh chumpy hair oil uh while she will also adapt uh conditioners and serum in her lifestyle, she will not give up, uh give up her chumpy. Once you know that, then you’ll be able to observe it from that lens in any category that you choose.

Balbir Singh: 10:00

So, how do you, as a leader, make sure that each of your employees has that same lens that you are talking about? How do they observe consumer behaviors, consumer patterns? You doing it is set, but how do you ensure everybody who is at the shop floor observes, makes those observations and is bringing innovation and new ideas to the table? Like what are some of the practices that you follow with your team? So scan data.

Damodal Mall: 10:24

Yeah. Uh data is paramount. Yeah. Uh, and more and more intelligence is available to interpret data today, which is very good. But what observation gives, what shop floor gives, what uh visiting people’s home and looking at their refrigerator and kitchens and pantries gives is the reason behind uh what uh data is telling you. The motivations, how customers are changing. So the culture that uh everybody in leadership roles has to spend time on the shop floor. And when they do it, uh they do it, they they wear uh the uniform, uh, spends time with the associates. That’s a core part of our leadership practice. Any market where uh anybody from leadership is visiting a town, there is a ritual that we create. Uh, the ritual is called Leader Beat Seven.

Balbir Singh: 11:17

Okay.

Damodal Mall: 11:18

So seven store associates from that town uh have a snack and or a meal with the leader, okay, talking to them directly. So you skip all levels and talk to people who frontline uh who uh are listening to the customers and uh swing it. So you you you gotta do it through both the intelligence of what scan data is telling you, because that is paramount, yeah, and layered with the why, why of the behavior of both. Our constituencies, primary constituencies are the consumers that we serve the customers, and our uh uh associates who serve the customers at the front line. Uh when you combine the the power of the two, uh it becomes uh a force to reckon with.

Balbir Singh: 12:01

So you’re saying it’s a combination of uh data plus intuition and experiences that you get from talking to your direct front uh store employees. Uh but as a leader, uh, what are those three matrices that you track? Uh, you know, could be anything, could be people, could be business numbers, but what are those three things that you track on a daily basis? And how has that helped you uh become a better leader?

Damodal Mall: 12:27

So in consumer business, the the uh the good part is you you get to read consumer behavior through data every day. And data these days is all on your phone, everything is yeah, all systems. So uh and to me, if the consumer matrices are going right, then it means your engagement on the shop floor, it means the service levels are also keeping track. So that is done. And the second part, as I mentioned, is how store first first and store teams first is in the behavior of uh the core leadership team, both at the headquarters and uh uh in in our regions, are the things that I I keep an eye on. Uh and as these things become part of the culture, yeah, the more it is culture, the less you have to supervise. So when I started off, I would say people were logging in their uh store sava hours. Uh huh. Uh when on their own they went to the store, spent time in the store, they were logging in and they were uh voluntarily logging in and I was keeping an eye on it. Now it’s not required. Everyone knows that that’s the default behavior expected.

Balbir Singh: 13:43

Okay. So that’s part of uh the culture fitment that has created by itself. That’s it. Uh so you know um Reliance Hill is part of a bigger reliance group. So is there one unified reliance culture that you have since you spoke about culture, or you have some expert best fits that you have created for your own organization? So, how do you marry the culture that you have at you know Reliance Hill with the the culture of the mother reliance uh organization?

Damodal Mall: 14:13

Obviously, retail and in retail the value format uh that uh we do sits under the umbrella uh uh of uh the reliance group as a whole. The core values through the group are what we seek in terms of consistency. So those are things that are uh paramount and go across businesses irrespective of businesses. Okay, so those values uh remain there expected in consumer-facing businesses we draw from the communities, we are drawing people from the communities. Our customer is different in in every region, uh, so are our team members, our customer-facing team members. Therefore, you will see shades of drawing from the community in our culture. You will see the difference between uh shades of difference between how our stores in Tamil Nadu or versus our stores in uh West Bengal uh would feel a little different. Uh the women and workforce, women’s education level, yeah, their confidence is higher in the southern states, yeah, and understanding of the nuances of the culture and drawing from the culture uh and the roots is higher when you go to the eastern states. And it’s good for uh a business like ours to have our actual delivered culture, a confluence of these two. One is the mother culture of the organization, and the other is the culture that you draw from where you belong and where you are serving the community.

Balbir Singh: 15:54

So when you have an organization which is a combination of cultures from various parts of India, how do you create a high performing team as a leader? You know, uh of course there are nuances, so your local leadership in West Bengal will be very different from a local leadership in Tamil Nadu. But as a leader, how do you create a high performing culture so that everybody at the end of the day is measured on the same pedestal?

Damodal Mall: 16:19

Yeah, so because the response times and effort to output is much shorter in a retail business, yeah. Uh this is monitored rather well. Okay. Uh because your customer parameters move if you if you uh if the one step behind in your value chain rattles a bit, it shows up in the uh how do you run it? How do you execute it consistently? And we are about in our business, we are over 60,000 people.

Balbir Singh: 16:52

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 16:54

You run it through a culture formation which is anchored on uh beyond SOPs and processes which are paramount, uh, through symbols, rituals, and stories. There are there is a common way uh in which customers are greeted, there is a common way in which people greet each other, uh, there is a way you behave on the shop floor, uh, there are rituals, examples I mentioned, uh those rituals are are important, and there are there are shared stories which get transmitted uh uh uh across good part is in this post-GEO world, transmission of stories of all kinds has become frictionless. So uh uh and that helps. Success in one part of the country and innovation by our team in uh in Dhimapur uh is known to our team in Koikode uh and Nagarkoil uh within 24 hours and they pick what they uh what they want. So if you have a thought of saying uh symbols, rituals, and stories have to be anchored and they must they have to they have to travel uh across, uh then the glue forms. And over a period of time, retail allows you to do this. Iteration levels are so fast, retail allows you to do it again, again and again and again. And if you celebrate innovations by the the simplest of teams, uh then uh uh it it starts becoming fearlessness, uh willingness to try new things and uh take the risk uh in in your stores or in your cluster or in your state uh becomes a way of life uh for us to do.

Balbir Singh: 18:38

Yeah. So I like that. Uh symbols, rituals, and stories. Yes.

Damodal Mall: 18:41

And uh all religions are all religions are anchored on this. Yeah, all political marketing is anchored on this.

Balbir Singh: 18:47

That’s the way cultures get formed. Yeah, simple yet powerful. And this last point that you just said, no, when people know that they will not be uh punished for honest mistakes or for trying something new and innovative, they have the confidence that they can go the extra mile and that they will not be punished. I think that inspires confidence in the leadership team, and that’s very, very important for any organization that’s is on the path of innovation or wants to keep innovating, especially in a business like retail.

Damodal Mall: 19:15

Uh yeah, it’s a it’s a uh it doesn’t happen on its own, Hanji. But it’s the advantage of retail.

Balbir Singh: 19:22

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 19:23

That uh the actual cost of trying something. So this store for my customer I might be running 3,500 stores.

Balbir Singh: 19:36

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 19:36

But for my customer, this is the only store. This is a full market. She’s shopping only here.

Balbir Singh: 19:42

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 19:43

I can try something here. Uh if the customer of this store is responding, I know it works. Then I can quickly make copies. So when when it’s risky and I’m trying something new, I can do it in five stores.

Balbir Singh: 19:56

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 19:57

Yeah. Unlike an unlike a CPG or FMCG business where I have to plan ahead, I have to depend on media for a broadcast, I have to get it right before I go out to the market. Here we go out to the market every day. At the end of one weekend, my customer tells you in tells me in those five stores whether the idea was a bright idea or whether it was a silly idea.

Balbir Singh: 20:18

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 20:19

If it’s a silly idea, we don’t tell anyone about it, just kill the idea at the five-store level itself. And if it’s a bright idea, we sharpen it, we write English about it, we stories, we build stories behind it, and then propel it uh through our network. So if you keep doing it again and again, then which is keep killing failures quickly and keep propelling uh successes far and wide, uh, then it becomes an innovation machine uh looking back.

Balbir Singh: 20:48

That’s actually a very important point that you made, Dhamodar. Like, how do you innovate in a fast moving business like this? Where you innovate at a small level in a store because you have thousands of stores, and the once it is streamlined, once you know it is working, it becomes part of the uh standard procedure. So you’re innovating on the site, but then it becomes for the standard procedure, and then everybody is replicating it.

Damodal Mall: 21:10

Because everything is about that’s what reliance is inherently very good at.

Balbir Singh: 21:13

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 21:14

Our genetics come from process industry.

Balbir Singh: 21:16

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 21:17

So when something works, how to craft it? And 1 to 100 is what we know very well. Yeah. So that’s how we are able to scale. I I can I can share this with you. That anything decided today, even with one of our vendors on their brand, I say, yeah, this is what we’ll uh do. In 10 days’ time, you can go to any part of the country and you will find it uh that it has been done. So that’s that’s the power of scale, and that’s why you do the experiment small.

Balbir Singh: 21:52

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 21:53

So that you don’t fail at scale. You you fail, uh, you succeed at scale and fail uh uh subscale. That’s the way it works.

Balbir Singh: 22:01

And what you’re telling me is that you’re not even experimenting it if it is not scalable. So that question of scalability has to be answered first, and then you experiment, and once you know experiment works, then you scale it across. Uh once the consumer is with me, everything is scalable. Yeah, okay. That’s uh uh a better way of putting it. Yeah, yeah. So once the consumer is with you, you will figure out uh the scalability. Uh, and that’s the advantage of uh being in India also. Uh so great. Uh my next question, uh you know, you spoke about your frontline leaders visiting uh uh the shop floor, meeting seven people from different regions, uh, but there’s also a corporate office. So, and corporate office, what we have seen. No, not frontline leaders.

Damodal Mall: 22:47

Everybody, every leader from corporate office also when they’re traveling, they will meet uh they will meet seven uh associates.

Balbir Singh: 22:54

And what we have seen, Damodar, the feedback from corporate offices is always lower than what we get from the field across the board, not just your organization. Uh, but how do you ensure that some of the leaders or some of the store heads get to experience what’s happening in corporate? So is there something like a reverse flow where they come sit in the corporate, experience how corporate works? How do you think at a larger uh multi-u-store level, is there a reverse uh cosmosis happening?

Damodal Mall: 23:23

So the most entrepreneurial place and where my business actually lives is the store.

unknown: 23:30

Okay.

Damodal Mall: 23:30

The the therefore the my challenge is the reverse. My challenge is to ensure that. So there are, I always say there are three people who are CEOs in my business. My store manager, yeah, because that’s multifunctional, the buck stops with uh him or her. Yeah. My store manager, my state manager, because habits, merchandising, teams, language, uh aggregates at the state level, and state I’m loosely using uh state as a term, uh, and then the business CEO. The challenge is that the between them the communication is strong enough and my central leadership is well connected and is in tune with the stores.

Balbir Singh: 24:12

Okay.

Damodal Mall: 24:13

That’s the challenge. That’s the way I I I I put it. Fortunately for us, the tools have become uh simpler. Yeah, uh videos video skills uh my store associate uh from you know Gen Z internet first background, yeah. When he or she they are joining our team, their video skills are better than anybody’s uh video skills in uh in uh uh our business. And uh uh I find their ability to cons so I do videos and post them on social media, uh on uh retail principles, whatever I understand, and I find that uh my store executive in uh uh Luthyana will know about what I say on social media more than and faster than what our learning and development department is sending out as training material, etc. Because what is consumed in today’s world is by pull, is by interest, and that has got democratized. I think therefore, if you got your messaging right, if you got your uh stories and symbols and rituals right, then the friction of sharing has gone away, which I I look at it as an opportunity. Uh people play back to me, sir. I have a question based on what you posted uh on on uh social media last week.

Balbir Singh: 25:52

Yeah. So which I think to me is is very effective and empowering. Yeah, you got to be where people are instead of getting them to your intranet platform. People are on Instagram, that’s where you have to be, uh, especially for a business like yours uh with more than 60,000 employees. Now that’s an interesting point, and I’ll just take a segue into then my next question is what do you think are some of the recent retail trends that you think uh can be game changers for the future? Of course, we are all talking about digital native Gen Z or how do you manage intergenerational talent or what AI is doing, and then some of those e-commerce uh brands, you know, only so what do you think are some of the biggest retail trends that can become even bigger in the future?

Damodal Mall: 26:37

So our uh around our business, we are very clear that uh digital intelligence uh will happen to all facets of life and all facets of business. So that is a given. So uh machine intelligence and process intelligence, processing intelligence uh in various forms will be available. Uh and that becomes part of that dovetails into becoming part of our everyday life. From the consumer side, the interesting things that are happening in retail uh is all e-commerce is becoming quick. Yeah, yeah, and it’s a good thing because it is uniquely Indian. Yeah, yeah. Uh it it is not working in many parts of the world, but in India, which is digitally very literate, people at all income levels are literate, people who are consuming and ordering are also literate, people who are uh delivering goods are also very, very digitally literate. Uh our density of population in urban areas is is high. Yeah. Uh so this is unique to us, and everybody is curious, everybody, like I said, as incomes increase, you want to buy new products and things like that. So this is a unique combination, and quick commerce is the shortest distance between desire and consumption. Okay. We are all learning uh in all parts of our business, uh, including fashion, including digital, including uh uh value format and grocery uh so that is that is it that is interesting. All consumers will be omnichannel, all stores will be omni-channel, all digital delivery people will also learn to be in stores. That’s the direction I see. So that’s the big uh move, and this is picture a big baki. We have just in the early days, uh, but the world will be world will be completely omnichannel. Experiences in the stores like this will also have a lot of digital component uh as as part of it. And uh that these two worlds will uh flow flow uh uh together uh forward is how I see it.

Balbir Singh: 28:57

Yeah, because uh when you talk about uh the shortest distance between uh desire and consumption, actually that worries me also a bit. I have a three-year-old. Uh that day we were just going through some images on the computer and uh she saw an image of blueberry saying, Dad, I want this, and she knows it can be ordered right away and she can have it right away. Uh so there’s nothing like waiting that I’ll get it tomorrow, I’ll go to the store and get it for you, saying, Dad, order it now. Uh so it’s also at that age, and these kids are getting are born with you know very quick dispensation, everything is available and uh at a snap of a finger. So I don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing. Uh, but uh uh Achae. Achae. It’s a good thing. It’s a good thing. Okay.

Damodal Mall: 29:42

Yeah, she’s looking at blueberry and she’s able to uh desire it because her parents can buy it for her.

Balbir Singh: 29:50

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 29:51

So it’s also an expression of uh expression of uh the fact that you can do it. Indians. Are very value conscious. I have no worries about. In fact, the problem is Ulta, none of us know how to consume to our today’s income. Because our income increases are relatively recent. Forces like modern stores like this, which show you theater of choice, e-commerce and quick commerce, which deliver goodies to you at home, are forces which help you uh express those incomes. We have been uh we are hesitant in expressing our income. And uh some of these things actually I would say are are are good things.

Balbir Singh: 30:36

So I think that we will go through it. Being a typical Indian dad, what I did, I waited for a couple of hours and then ordered it so that she does not get it in 10 minutes, but after two and a half hours. That’s uh so that she has to wait a bit.

Damodal Mall: 30:47

That’s that’s your balancing uh act, but on the whole, the force that more choice is available to us and uh uh fulfillment is available faster.

Balbir Singh: 30:56

Got it. Is uh is not a bad thing at all, is a good thing. So as a leader, you know, with all these changes happening so often, there are definitely some challenges that your employees, your workforce is facing on a day-to-day basis and also at a bigger, uh larger uh uh you know strategy of the business basis. So, how do you address some of these challenges for your team, for your N minus one, and you know the rest of the organization?

Damodal Mall: 31:20

No, no, of course, all all change is a challenge, all change is an opportunity. Uh if it allows me to run my business better, if it allows me to address a bigger uh share of basket uh with the consumers by by being digital first in my thinking for every part of the business, then it’s a good thing. And uh uh I have to be where my customer is. And if uh someone uh a team or a format which is several times bigger than us and has much deeper history, like Walmart in the US, learns to turn completely omnichannel and everybody does it, then why not us? We are we are a younger nation, my team members are younger, then uh uh we have less history, less baggage.

Balbir Singh: 32:10

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 32:11

So we have to be nimble footed. Uh so it’s not a choice, it’s uh it’s a must do. For for me, my n minus one, and like I said, uh in today’s world, the the younger you are, the more you are at an advantage because you carry less baggage of free learning.

Balbir Singh: 32:29

Okay, exciting times, I must say, in that case. So, you know, uh, you know, as a leader who has been in this business for uh so many years, what would be your advice to young leaders in this space? How they can make it big, or how can they make sure that they are doing the right things by the business?

Damodal Mall: 32:49

Before that, I would say uh retail is not merely a profession. I think it’s a calling. Okay. And I always tell people, you know, in the first year or so, make up your mind whether this is your calling. Yeah. Uh it is always detailed, it is always changing. And it has other social factors. Yeah, when everybody else is holidaying or celebrating, those are your peak working days. It involves uh dealing with very diverse and changing, changing demand patterns and responding each time. It involves being on your feet for long hours, it uh involves spending time in the stores. So if that does not give you a kick, yeah, if the kick that I thought of something, I did a change in my store or on the app uh, and in three hours’ time I could read the impact of it. If that doesn’t give you a kick, then this is not your calling.

Balbir Singh: 33:53

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 33:53

Then this becomes hard work and a tough challenge. So choose if this is your calling. Once you start getting a kick out of being in retail and enjoying the customer response, uh, then everything else can be learned. Then what channel in through what channel are you fulfilling demand? Uh big stores, small stores, value stores, premium stores, uh, omnichannel or dark stores? Yeah. Yeah. All that to me is secondary. But you got to enjoy retail. And if not, there are so many fields available, uh is what I say.

Balbir Singh: 34:35

So, what do you look for when you’re hiring a leader? Let’s say someone who has to report to you and work with you closely, what are you know one or two trades that you look for in that individual?

Damodal Mall: 34:44

Oh, that’s that’s quite simple. So uh for the function for which I’m hiring, those skill sets are situational or particular to that function. So that that is given, you you come from that domain, you have that domain. If I’m hiring you to buy uh fruits and vegetables, uh then you better know your fruits and vegetables. But the smell test for everyone in the leadership uh role, the smell test is customer centricity. The smell test is to have an instinct which says, I will tune to your point of view and want to who I want to serve, irrespective of whether you’re bringing me a business of only 500 rupees uh at a time. That to me is a go-no-go uh test to do.

Balbir Singh: 35:34

I think you’ve written about this at detail uh in your book also, and you talk about a concept called as retail by observation. Uh so I think that’s again centered around this customer centricity, and that is coming out uh without me asking about it, it’s coming out very clearly in some of the responses you’re sharing. Uh my next question is uh, you know, uh I’ll tell you a thing about observation.

Damodal Mall: 35:57

Sorry, giving a pause. Please go ahead. You know, like I mentioned, data is powerful, and data is our competitive advantage compared to uh uh many, many people in the industry. My data tells me that you bought uh lentil pasta and pasta sauce from my store yesterday. That’s a fact, yeah, and it’ll help me shape assortment, etc. etc. But the story behind that purchase, and here are two options I will give you the same purchase lentil uh pasta and uh uh pasta sauce. You could have had a quarrel with your wife, and she said, I’m going out with my friends tonight. You look after your dinner yourself.

Balbir Singh: 36:50

Yeah. Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 36:51

And you came here, you saw that pasta, you wanted to buy, you saw uh Shilpa Shetty’s photo on the pack, and then you grabbed it and then you took the pasta sauce and went home. Same purchase, same data.

Balbir Singh: 37:03

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 37:04

Or you’re here with your young daughter. She’s a teenager, you’re shopping around, and she says, please don’t buy wheat pasta. Here is the no nasties, gluten-free, good for you pasta that has come. Uh, wicked good is the brand, and I know about it. Shil Pashetti is the brand ambassador. And take uh two pasta sauces because I will make it twice with different sauces, and I will cook it for you, Dad. Come, let’s buy uh this pasta. Same data, but the the reason why you’re purchasing is completely different. If I don’t observe you, I will never know. So, this whole thing of observing people, why they are buying, uh, both in the shop uh or their journey on the app, how they are traveling to buy this, as well as their consumption behavior in the store, is the difference between uh knowledge and insight. And finally, competitive edge comes from insights.

Balbir Singh: 38:04

Yeah, I can very well relate to the second example because I also have a teenage daughter, three-year-old and a teenage daughter, and uh I can very well uh see that happening to me. And you made a very good uh clear reference between difference between information and insight. You know, you can have tons and tons of information, information because we are capturing every data point. How do you get the right insights? So, how do you uh look beyond the noise of data? Is there something specific that you have to learn or does it happen with experience? How does that happen? You know, so I don’t call data noise, I call data mine.

Damodal Mall: 38:44

Mine, okay. Because it’s full of jewels, provided you learn to ask the right question and work with it. So uh so insights come from you asking questions to the data. The questions have to be rooted in understanding of consumer behavior. Uh by itself, data is cold.

Balbir Singh: 39:05

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 39:06

Uh but when you query it uh with uh with with uh understanding and the sparks happen, sparks for insight happen through observation. You observe something, get your questions, and say, let me observe for the next 15 days for every trolley that is shopping in our store, how many people are accompanying that trolley? Because are people buying, am I targeting people who are buying alone or am I targeting people who are buying together? Then I can get data from across the country, big town, small town, uh, through our video feeds and and then I will know whether it is valid or not. But the curiosity for what to ask, the curiosity, the trigger for the insight uh comes from observation. So I think it’s the practice of retail. Uh and like most things in life, uh good things are always a combination of art and science.

Balbir Singh: 40:02

Great. So these questions require short answers. Okay. Uh putting you on the spot. Uh what’s one leadership lesson that you have learned from the shop floor and has stayed with you all these years?

Damodal Mall: 40:17

If uh customer is God, God’s true voice is heard only by people who wear the uniform. God does not talk the truth to people who wear ties. Okay. Therefore, if you have to listen to the customer, you have to be in a uniform which signals that I’m here to serve you.

Balbir Singh: 40:37

Yeah, so the Gabriel only whispers in the ears of the people who are wearing that uniform. Correct. And they know they’ll listen. If you were to write a new chapter today, what’s one myth about Indian shopper that you would want to bust? It’s a myth that nobody has the time.

Damodal Mall: 40:54

I think if you are interesting, people have all the time. And people have all the interest. So this chasing time poorness, I think, is overrated.

Balbir Singh: 41:04

Uh great, great. Uh how do you celebrate and what’s or what’s your favorite way to celebrate team wins?

Damodal Mall: 41:13

Having uh simple meal together, sit-down meal served uh to us in the region where I am. Okay. So a local uh meal shared with the team uh in the sitting down banner.

Balbir Singh: 41:31

Okay, great, great, great. Uh one future skill that you think every retail professional should have.

Damodal Mall: 41:40

One future skill that every professional in every profession should have is a digital first instinct. Okay. I think it’s a life skill uh which is needed and it is harder, the older you are, the harder harder it is. So uh the younger people get it naturally, but uh especially for leaders, really working hard on thinking digital first is what I’ve got.

Balbir Singh: 42:09

So probably some reverse mentoring can also help uh working with young professionals.

Damodal Mall: 42:15

I’m I’m being mentored by one uh uh young young person in our HR team. Yeah, and uh uh uh he comes with uh questions that I I don’t even know should be my questions. You’ve got it. And uh solves for me, and it’s great fun. Great, great.

Balbir Singh: 42:37

What’s one small habit that helps you stay organized?

Damodal Mall: 42:43

Look my no pen. Okay, great. I uh all notes are digital.

Balbir Singh: 42:50

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 42:51

Sometimes pictures, sometimes voice, uh, sometimes just WhatsApp to myself, uh but no pen, except when I’m writing chapters in my book, because then my I need my uh expression and my thought to be at the same speed. Yeah. Maybe that’s a handicap uh because I have gray hair. Digital handicap policy. Because I have gray hair, but otherwise in my work, look mono pen.

Balbir Singh: 43:19

Okay. What’s one KPI that you look at every day?

Damodal Mall: 43:26

Uh first thing in the morning, the number of customers we served uh yesterday.

Balbir Singh: 43:30

Oh, okay, great. Great. Uh one word that describes Indian shoppers. Happy and curious. Happy and curious. And what is that one retail trend that you think is override?

Damodal Mall: 43:52

Everybody is shopping e-commerce. Okay. And it is important, e-commerce is vital.

Balbir Singh: 43:58

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 43:59

But the share of discussions, the share of mind uh and debate of e-commerce is much higher than the share of market.

Balbir Singh: 44:09

Okay, okay. And how do you wind off after a long day, long, fulfilling day? Any personal favorite?

Damodal Mall: 44:18

My my work is such that if I take a stroll in the store, I I it that is chilling uh for me. But I do play the I do play the keyboard and I learn the keyboard. I play music, uh that’s the one way of doing that.

Balbir Singh: 44:35

Okay. Last one. If you could uh spend a day in another reliance vertical, which one would that be? That’s a good question.

Damodal Mall: 44:46

Day or a week, whatever. Reliance Foundation. Reliance Foundation. Because like my business, Reliance Foundation also touches a very large number of lives and plays at India scale, but not from a consumption motivation. Yeah, but from a life change motivation. So if I have to spend time, then I would say Reliance Foundation.

Balbir Singh: 45:09

Okay. And I say I I said last one, but there’s one more. Okay. Uh what’s your favorite book?

Damodal Mall: 45:15

Uh my favorite book always is uh uh the book that I’ve last read or I’m reading.

Balbir Singh: 45:23

Great. Which one is that?

Damodal Mall: 45:24

I I ensure that everything that I read makes an impact and changes some behavior uh in me. So my all-time anchors when I’ve started with retail were two books for the business model and business building side, uh, made in America, Sam Walton book. And for the consumer model and the skills of working with consumer, why we buy by Paco and the Hill. So the consumer model and uh business model side, those are the books that I keep going back to and uh referring to, but those are anchors in life. Uh what I’ve what I’m just reading is a book by Seth Gordon called The Purple Cow.

Balbir Singh: 46:02

Yeah.

Damodal Mall: 46:02

Uh that’s uh that’s the thing about marketing to today’s consumers with today’s means, uh, etc. And yes, I make sure that some of those practices are uh implemented in the business also as well.

Balbir Singh: 46:15

I think you have to keep your uh, as you said, as you started, you’ll have to have your antenna open. Uh that was the first response. So whether you’re reading, observing, how do you implement some of those? How do you feel fast, innovate, implement at scale? I think uh that basically.

Damodal Mall: 46:31

However educated, etc. I’m a Dukandar. So even if I’m reading a book, I try and extract value for it, not merely for as book is not an end in itself. That’s correct. It has to improve life, it has to change something in my personal or professional life.

Balbir Singh: 46:46

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think uh this has been a very, very fruitful uh discussion, Da Modar. Uh I’m sure our readers will plenty of benefit from this. I learned a few things myself uh and I’m sure everybody will enjoy it. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Balbee.