Krishnan Ramachandran, CEO & MD, Niva Bupa on Healthcare, Talent, and AI

Balbir Singh: 0:00

Hello and welcome to For All. Podcast by Great Place to Work, India. I am Balveer Singh, CEO of Great Place to Work in India. In this podcast series, we speak with leaders from India Inc. To understand their stories of how did they create businesses that last and how do they create organizations where people love to turn up to work every day. Today, I have the pleasure of joining Mr Krishnan Ramachandran, who is the MD and CEO of Niva Bhopa, in this conversation. We will just know from him his journey and some of the things that we do not know about him, and it’s my pleasure to welcome you, mr Krishnan, and tell us something that only you can tell us, you know. Not something I can find by googling about you and your career or how you, you know, started your career, but something that only you can tell.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 0:54

So we’ll get started, wow firstly, balbir, please call me krishnan, unless you want me to call you mr balbir that’s good. That’s good with me uh, yeah, krisnan, uh, but you know, thank you for having me on this show. You know it has been a great privilege, uh to participate, um, in the annual great place to work process that you run and, uh, for us as a company, you know, it’s been an incredible journey you know, maybe a little bit about that and then I get to answering your question, because we are in a business that is very intense from an execution standpoint.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 1:39

What we do is very close to people’s emotions. We deal with health and we deal with families in their most vulnerable moments. So how well we do on talent, in my mind, is the most critical success factor. I mean, if we have to be sustainably successful, you know this is the number one factor and you know as we were grappling on. You know it’s one thing to say, you know as we were grappling on, you know it’s one thing to say that we need to do well on talent, but is there an objective external benchmark for us to, for us to use as a framework to guide our talent journey? And you know, in my earlier organization it was something that we used to do year on year and you know, when I joined what was then Max Pupa and this is one of, in retrospect, one of the most important decisions that we made that look, this is something that we truly view as important. It’s something that we want to continuously benchmark and improve on and improve on, and it has been an incredible journey, you know, to participate in this. It’s something that we report to our board. It’s an index that every leader in the company gets measured on, not so much from the point of view of the measure but more, you know, on how do we continuously improve and engage with respect to what we do with talent. So I thought you know it’s important for me to get that out and therefore it is indeed, you know, a privilege to be on the show with you.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 3:15

In terms of something that people don’t know about me, I’d like to think I’m a bit of an open book. At least the people who have been with me and who work closely with me will know this. But you know I’m somebody who enjoys traveling a lot. I love, you know, maybe two, three times a year. I have two grown up girls, so getting their time is increasingly precious. So you know we do when we do trips together. You know it’s about exploring places, seeing new cultures. So you know that’s something I really like doing.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 3:54

Perhaps not so well known about me, the other thing that I do like doing outside of work is reading, and mostly these days it’s been nonfiction, but I’ve been a voracious reader of both fiction and non-fiction over time. That’s the other thing which perhaps not everybody knows about me, and you know I am a foodie, so do love all kinds of food vegetarian food for most part, but every year, once you know, when it’s winter in delhi, uh, going to chandni chowk uh with with friends and family is sort of an annual uh. You know something that we do annually and enjoy exploring wherever we go and wherever in india and my job does require me to travel. You know, tasting different cuisines is something that I enjoy.

Balbir Singh: 4:52

No, I think that’s a good start. And since you spoke about you know some of the challenges that your frontline people face because people call them in times of distress, uh, so let me start from there itself. So if I am front line call center employee I receive how do you take care of well-being or their mental wellness so that they’re able to do their job and also be able to connect with the someone who’s at the other end, connect with them emotionally and help them and make sure they have the right details that they need in this time of you know, you know very sensitive time that they’re calling?

Krishnan Ramachandran: 5:34

yeah, I mean so, frontline sales, claims, adjudicators, people who work in our contact center or people who deal with transactions in general, and especially, you know, addressing this for our employees, who don’t necessarily deal with customers at the front end, is an equally important you know element, if you will. And I think it all stems from two things. One is, you know I know it’s sort of fanciful to talk about purpose and purpose-led organizations, but genuinely, you know, in Niva Bupa, we have defined for ourselves a purpose that resonates within the organization, which is we say that our purpose is to give every Indian the confidence to access the best health care, and this is deeply relevant from a society standpoint. Today we live in an India where maybe five, five and a half crore Indians fall into poverty every year because of hospitalization expense. That’s the scale of the problem that we deal with. And you know what, what I often say when I when I deal with our sales teams is look, this is really what you do Every time you make a promise and bring somebody into the fold of Nivapupa, and you know we make good on the promise that you have made.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 7:13

You know we fulfill a purpose and in doing so, we fulfill what is a very, very fundamental need of the society that we live in. So I think that is very empowering and, you know, takes what we do outside of normal just commercial reasons. You know, of course we’re all here to get a salary. We want, uh, you know, a good livelihood. We want to provide good lifestyles to our families. But the fact that in doing what we do we serve a very fundamental societal need, I think is hugely helpful. I mean speaking for myself. You know I’m passionate about what we do because I truly feel, you know, what we do makes a difference. So that’s one. Second is you know, we have a very, very interesting shareholder in pupa. Bupa is a commercial organization, but their corporate structure is very unique in the sense that they are a limited by guarantee company. All profits get reinvested back into customers, so to speak.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 8:20

Right, so, they are a company that truly exists only for the customer, so that you know just in terms of what that means. And they are a company that truly exists only for the customer so that you know just in terms of what that means. And they are the majority 56% shareholder in the company. What it means is, you know, as a company, we are truly in a position to say let’s do the right thing here. So again, I think that’s very empowering and ennobling you. As far as our employees are concerned.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 8:49

Now, I think all of this is fine, but ultimately, for somebody who’s doing something, you know, we all get into the routines of what I call execution and sometimes it’s easy to lose sight of the fact that, at the end of, on the other side of what we do, is a customer who’s who’s buying into us because they believe that we will stand by them in their hour of need, so continuously reminding, you know, all of us that look, what is a claims file to you, what is a policy document to you, what is a transaction that you have to work with?

Krishnan Ramachandran: 9:25

Beneath that, behind that, is actually a real family whom you’re helping, and we do that through multiple means, but one which we’ve been embarked on for the last few years.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 9:36

I’d like to highlight is what we call Smile Ko Claim Karle, as a program that we love run inside the company, which is really about making all of what I’m saying real for our employees by presenting and showcasing real life customer stories. A number of senior leaders visit an office and a fixed agenda in that office visit is to invite customers who’ve benefited from the insurance policies and making it real to the employees there and that, look, it’s not just sales or claims files that we’re dealing with here. We are dealing with real families and real lives whom we are benefiting, and we do that at scale right, we do that with our bank branches and we do that at scale right, we do that with our bank branches, we do that in our offices every month. When some of us visit our noida back office again, we make it a point to invite customers so that you know, for somebody who’s dealing with maybe 40, 50 claims adjudication decisions in a day, you know that decision is going to help, that you know a family, making that real and come alive.

Balbir Singh: 10:48

I think ultimately is what, uh, you know, keeps us going yeah, and that’s very important for you, which is just one amongst many cases that you handle every day. The there’s someone else who is dependent on that one decision and, as you said, you know I knew there was. There was. The scale was big, but about five crore people in india fall into poverty because of one serious hospitalization. I think that’s what we keep hearing. Most Indians are just one serious hospitalization away from poverty and today I know the scale.

Balbir Singh: 11:19

Uh, so you know, uh, system, how, how do you evolve as a leader, like when you are in this business, in this industry, where you have to make sure that you are meeting your customer requirements? You are, you know, meeting your employee requirements, their growth and everything, and you’re also an overlisted company, but I, anyways, don’t want to go there. But how has your leadership style evolved pre-COVID and post-COVID? Because this was an industry that probably was at the center of what was happening in covid. So what were some of the changes that you observed in your own style and some of the leaders that you have?

Krishnan Ramachandran: 11:57

uh, yeah, I mean in terms of I would maybe not necessarily style as a leader, yeah, but my own evolution as a leader over the last 10-15 years, perhaps the biggest needle you know that has moved for me is the recognition and action on the centrality of, of what it takes to build institutions and drive sustainable performance of talent.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 12:40

Ultimately, the more we move in this journey of building an organization, the more nuanced and the more strong is the reflection of how strong talent practices in a fundamental way underpin everything that we do.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 13:02

So if you ask me personally, what’s been the most exciting journey as a leader, especially in the last five years in Niva Bupa, it’s been our journey around talent.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 13:19

It’s been our journey around talent, whether it’s getting better in hiring talent, whether it’s getting better on skilling and developing talent, just being more thoughtful about a lot of what we do around talent, about shaping culture. You know the earlier discussion we had around. You know how do we sort of get a large, distributed workforce aligned around something like purpose, which is, in my mind, really about shaping culture and the kind of actions people take when they’re not being watched, so to speak, whether it’s about building trust in the cadence of performance or cadence of execution. To me, this has been perhaps the most important evolution I’ve had as a leader, you know, not just in terms of leadership style and this therefore then translates into actions and and maybe style but in terms of my own professional. If I reflect back on the last one decade, the centrality and emphasis I place on talent is perhaps the single biggest reflection I have in my own professional journey.

Balbir Singh: 14:26

So when you are, let’s say, hiring a leader for your own team, what are some of the things that you look out for in that leader to be able to be successful in your business?

Krishnan Ramachandran: 14:36

So, balbir, you know in the on the hiring part what we have again, it’s a journey.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 14:45

But, over the last 24 odd months. We want to make hiring for higher probability of success a science. So we have what we refer to as a higher right program and, you know, maybe three years ago my heuristic for somebody to be successful in the company could have been some, you know, could have been different from somebody else’s. So what we did, you know, 24, 30 months ago, was to sit down and pull together our collective experience, layer that with what the data was saying in terms of look when we hire, when I hire, when someone else hires there are two aspects to what we look for right. One is skills, which is perhaps easy to or relatively easy to assess skills, experience, expertise. So that’s one thing. The other is, you know the human elements, personality, traits, competencies, whatever it is that you want to call that makes that person a fit for the role and for the company. You know a great place to work is having a company where you’re surrounded by great people, right? So is this person going to be great in our context? You know a great leader, and there we defined a competency framework, which is, you know, every leader that we hire, and leader is, you know, all the way down to somebody who’s potentially a branch manager. Right Should be. You know should have and have, and you know we’ve codified this into questions, cases. You know case-based interviewing techniques. I should have the raw material to build high performance teams. Should have the dna to be able to deliver outcomes or execution right.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 16:30

Should have a strategic mindset, because we are in a competitive environment which is very dynamic. You know regulations are dynamic, new competitors are coming in, product innovation is ongoing. So you know, not just corporate strategy but also strategy at the grassroots level to navigate what is increasingly a complex environment. You know technology is changing our world. So having a strategic mindset from that standpoint, we said, is critical.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 16:59

You know, for a leader to be successful in this environment and in our company and we also, you know we are a very entrepreneurial company. They have at least 300 shareholders, you know, of the company and therefore we said being an entrepreneur is also a competency that we want in somebody who joins us, somebody who’s not going to say that, look, I’ve done my job handing it over to the next person, but somebody will say that, look, I am the owner of this company and not only will I do my job but I will make sure that the next person does his or her job so that the job gets done right. So this is what we have codified. You know all of us have been through um. You know behavioral training in terms of how to interview an onboard talent, so that you know we get better and better at it.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 17:57

But, broadly, this is what I look for and it’s no different from what my colleagues look for when we hire talent.

Balbir Singh: 18:03

So basically, you have tried to make everything procedure-based.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 18:06

Process yes, Process-oriented.

Balbir Singh: 18:08

Yeah, yeah, so you know.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 18:09

Of course there are always elements of judgment.

Balbir Singh: 18:13

You know I have to like you, uh, through the interview process there has to be some chemistry match and all of that, but as much as possible you know, try and make things objective so, uh, christian, uh, you know that’s about leaders, but is there specific talent, specific advice that you want to give to uh people who are just joining the workforce and, if they were to join any organization, what are those attitudes? Attitude that will help them to be successful in any organization?

Krishnan Ramachandran: 18:41

look, and these are, as you rightly pointed out, some things that are constant and invariant, you know, across time and across organizations. And number one in my list and this could be different with other people may think differently number one in my list is passion. You know, passion to do whatever it is that you’re doing. Well, in my mind, you know, to anyone who’s looking to enter into corporate life, I’d say find something that you’re passionate about doing, because, beyond a point, if you’re doing something because it’s giving you income, giving you a lifestyle, but not giving you quote unquote happiness, you know, walk out and find something else to do, because when you think about it, you spend eight, nine, 10 hours of that part of the day when you’re awake in a workplace. So it’s critical that you’re passionate about it. So that’s, you know, that’s one advice, you know, and this is something that I tell my older daughter, who’s just recently joined the workforce. I said it doesn’t matter.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 20:00

You know you have to like what you’re doing, you have to be passionate about it, and you should do it without necessarily having you know, being told that you need to do it right. So that’s, that’s one. Second is, I’d say, the second piece of advice I would have is and I think it all flows from this point on passion is be damn good at what you do. You know over time, so, which means build knowledge, build expertise around what you do, so that you make a mark for yourself in in that particular arena. Third is whatever you do is making a difference to some customers somewhere. You know, as you, I guess most companies would have, would have customers.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 20:51

Uh, so the quality of what you do and the output that comes out of your hand, you know it should, you know it should be something that you would consume, uh, you know, as a customer, right, we are all customers and we are all producers. Uh, in that sense, right, so in a corporate context, you’re a producer for some customer. So, whatever that passes from your hand, it may not necessarily be uh, you know, it is that which gets into the hands of, of the customer, but you’ve had a role, so you better make sure that it is something that you would be, you know, happy consuming. So I’d say many things flow from there in terms of, uh, commitment job is going on in your hand. You know it should have, it should be something that you’re proud about.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 21:38

And so I’d say that’s the. That’s the third thing I would add, and perhaps the last one I would. I would say is look, it’s important to work hard, but equally it’s important to work smart. A lot of times in corporate life it’s very easy to not pick the right areas to work on, right. You know, prioritizing is something I think most organizations, most leaders struggle with. So picking what matters and working hard on that is the combination of working hard and working smart.

Balbir Singh: 22:15

What I tell the teams here, and I’m sort of repeating that to you so now you know if, uh, this is your answer, if I were to segue into something which is touching all of us right now is going to impact more and more people is ai. Now, when you’re talking to someone who’s young and say you have to be damn good at what you are doing and, of course, be passionate, but how do I be sure about the air of technology file, my job will get replaced by something that ai can do much better than me. So how do you create the sense of security in people who want to do something with the enjoy, and do you see ai as an enabler, uh, in what we do and we can also talk about your industry, how it is impacting your industry or do you see ai as something that is going to change the way we operate today and the world will be very different 20 years from now?

Krishnan Ramachandran: 23:08

see to the first part of your question. I will repeat, because I guess the vast majority of the workforce uh is going to be Gen Z and the generation that comes after that. I will repeat what I tell my daughter. She’s a she’s a visual illustration designer and you know the AI is definitely going to disrupt uh, you know that profession yeah and you know she’s. She’s very passionate about what she does and initially she was. She was very skeptical, saying that, look, I’d like to do this with my own hand.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 23:43

Because, that’s where the whole creativity and all of that comes in, and I think many of her peers feel that way, that, hey, this is about creativity and the human mind. Ai is a bit of an enemy, but I think what I’ve I’m still working at her. I don’t think I’ve won this battle, but what I tell her and what I repeat to any audience who’s listening to this, is look, this technology is there to stay. Either you eat it or it eats you, which means embrace it and use it. You know, use it for your benefit. You know, in any job there are things that are routine and repeatable and and human intelligence, human creativity, human emotion comes on top of that. So what I keep telling her is look, embrace this technology, learn everything you can about it and use it for your benefit, because ultimately, human creativity, ingenuity, intelligence does have a role. But if work today is 95 perspiration and five percent inspiration, ai takes away perhaps 90, 90 percent of that perspiration for you. So imagine a world where you can. That five percent or ten percent, you know, becomes hundred percent or close to one percent, and imagine how much more powerful, uh, human ingenuity, creativity and all of that stuff can be. So this is the same advice uh, you know I have to anybody who’s any industry that look, this technology is transformative, it is here to stay. Therefore, embrace it and bring in all of your skills on top of it, which you know, which sort of gets to the second part of your question.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 25:36

You know, I am a firm believer that it is man plus machine, right, if you sort of look at the at the long arc of uh, technology, disruption, revolution, whatever you, you know, whenever a new technology comes in, um and this is not a, this is not a rule, this is not a science, but this is how things have played out over history there is always fear about job loss, disruption and so on and so forth. But almost every technology that’s played out so far and I’m of the view that this technology will be the same becomes a force multiplier and becomes a force multiplier to human beings. And I personally feel that this technology as well is going to play a very important role, in the same way as many other transformative and revolutionary technologies. I mean, just imagine, in a country like india. You know, you said our industry, but I’ll take an industry which is also our industry, which is healthcare, right, yeah one of the bigger shortages we have in our country is is our doctors right?

Krishnan Ramachandran: 26:51

um, imagine, you know, imagine how many more people could potentially be screened for cancer if you had a machine. Do a radio, do 95% of a radiologist job. You know how many more people could be screened, basis signs and symptoms. So from a preventive health, promotive health standpoint standpoint, this technology is a massive force multiplier. Right, so you know sort of summarize it. I I am of the firm view that it is, that this technology is going to be a force for the good, and it will again be a case of man plus machine, with man or women, as the case may be, becoming much, much more powerful because of machine.

Balbir Singh: 27:41

So you answered both the questions already. I was just thinking are there any real-life cases, scenarios that you are implementing AI in your organization, because you have tons of data and to simplify some of the things or automate some of the decision making that happens?

Krishnan Ramachandran: 28:00

We are deploying algorithms underpinned by AI, machine learning, across the value chain. So, whether it’s issuing a policy, making a product recommendation, adjudicating a claim, detecting fraud, you know, putting the power of ai in the in the hands of our contact center staff or our customer, I’d say, across the value chain. We have embraced and are using. So what we call it within the company, is intelligent automation which gives the ability to make decisions, you know, by at the edge right. So, if, if the mobile phone is the device that I’m using, let’s say for, for sales, you know, put the power of intelligence, ai and decision making in the, in the in the hands of the sales, for the salesperson, yeah okay, so, as a ceo, you know you have spoken about understanding the customer, but how do you stay on top of your employees?

Balbir Singh: 29:14

uh, how, like, who are your? You know? How do you listen to your employees? How do you stay on top of you know what your organization is feeling, uh, at any moment, sure, and you know it comes from regular and frequent um uh in multiple data points.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 29:32

Let me just step back one is the data point that we get from you once here, right, which is actually, I think our participation rate was 91-92%.

Balbir Singh: 29:42

Yeah, it’s pretty high.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 29:43

So we have those employees in what’s a very well thought through and comprehensive way, giving us feedback on how we’re doing across the various dimensions. So that’s one important data point. The second set of data points is a cadence, which I mentioned to you, that the leadership team, including myself, has around visiting branches and engaging with employees. So so, broadly there, you know, the typical visit is a combination of three, four things. One is so broadly there, you know, the typical visit is a combination of three, four things. One is, and we start always with an employee town hall and a Q&A session, right, so it’s about hey, tell us what are your problems and you know how can we solve them. So that’s direct feedback, you know, from employees. Then we have the customer program.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 30:35

You know where sort of um run the smile co-claim currently, right, you know, distributors are, you know, uh, very important. So you know there’s a distributor angle. But you know, as far as the employee is concerned, that is one mechanism, uh. Second is, we do something similar, you know with, with our back office staff. Third is, you know, uh, one-on-one conversations with uh. You know, obviously there’s there’s bandwidth limitations in, but you know, definitely making sure that there’s one-on-one discussions, formal, informal, with um, maybe 60, 70 people, you know, through the course of the year and um, you know, priyanka had set up coffee conversations with groups of employees, maybe once a month, but all of this is, you know, uh, themed around. Three things, right, uh, what should we start doing to become a better company?

Krishnan Ramachandran: 31:36

yeah what should we stop doing? Yeah, you know that’s something, some stupid. Yeah, what should we stop doing? Yeah, you know, that’s something some stupid stuff that we should stop doing. And the last is what should we continue doing Something? We’re doing well, let’s make sure we continue doing that, yeah.

Balbir Singh: 31:49

Looking back at your leadership journey, you know what is something that you’re very proud of. You know. You know I think you did that call, you did that, took that decision and hindsight, you think you know that is something you did.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 32:03

It was very difficult decision at that time, but something that makes you proud of um, from an outcome standpoint, uh, you know, there’s only so many companies that have had the good fortune of being listed in our country and, as a professional, I’d say that’s been perhaps the most fulfilling aspect of the 5-year journey that the leaders in Iva Bupa and I have in fact every employee have had and we did list under challenging circumstances and you know they were running up to the actual event.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 32:43

There were many times when we could have and many advisors told us postpone this.

Balbir Singh: 32:50

Now is not the right time Now is not the right time.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 32:52

You can get better valuation and so on and so forth, but eventually, between the shareholders and me, we took the that look, we’ve come so far. Maybe we could get a few rupees more, maybe we could have better demand, more investors, but we felt that we had enough who trusted, who trusted in in the journey, in the team, and what we were capable of doing, and we eventually took that decision to go ahead and list in a, you know, in a very, very tricky time. So that’s something, on balance, uh, I guess, a good decision that we took. I you know it’s worked out well. It was also a time when not just, you know, the markets were challenging, but also there were a large number of changes from a regulatory standpoint, potential changes from a policy standpoint. So, you know, there were a lot of questions, a lot of challenges, but we took the call and, you know, touched on what’s been so far, so good.

Balbir Singh: 33:54

So what is it that you do to take care of all your own stay, sane your own well-being, and how do you ensure that your leaders are able to take care of their own well-being?

Krishnan Ramachandran: 34:08

um, so I, I, some time ago, I read this book called outlive by dr Peter A T andI, and you know I firmly believe it’s. It’s a book that all of us should read and it has some very good principles of what we all need to do, you know, to to stay healthy and, and I think the the most important part of any corporate journey is to be physically and emotionally fit, and I think many of us tend to not realize or tend to underplay the importance of being healthy to actual professional performance. So I’d say that’s the number one agenda that many of us have realized that, look, you know, great performance comes from a place of good health and a place of emotional safety and security. And you know, as a company, uh, that’s something that we firmly and you know I was really happy that in in in the recognition that gptw gave us as well in terms of employee health and well-being. You know, we did get recognized as a top 50 employer, uh, if I, if I recall right. But that’s something that we’ve been consciously working on Because, you know, as I said, this business is perhaps more demanding than many other businesses, because we do need to be available 24 by 7, health is 24 by 7.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 35:57

So the two ingredients, um, to sustain yourself in this journey. One is passion right, you have to like what you’re doing to be in in a health or health insurance business. Second is you’ve got to be physically healthy physically and and mentally healthy. So what do you do? What do you do to stay physically so? I, um, I exercise, walk regularly, I I think my journey with yoga is more than five years old, okay, so, at least three times a week, great, nice, uh, so, and you know, just being careful about I. You know, on the one side I said I’m a foodie yeah, but on the other side.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 36:39

You know I’m a controlled foodie. Now, okay, measured foodie measured foodie.

Balbir Singh: 36:43

Yeah, okay, good, so you know, listen, no, we’ve spoken about a lot of things. So what’s the best leadership advice that you received when you were, you know, growing up in your journey of where you are right now, something that you can relate to even today?

Krishnan Ramachandran: 37:04

I think different people have told me um, uh, different things, so I I wouldn’t pick one, but maybe I’ll. I’ll relate to two, three that have stuck with me. Uh, one is uh, firmly, keep your feet on the ground and your head on your shoulders. You know, success is a combination of so many things that need to fall in place. It’s not just your ability or your skill, but it’s also about the environment and luck. But it’s also about the environment and luck. So that is one very valuable leadership lesson, which is to stay grounded, stay humble and to recognize that outcomes come because of many things.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 37:58

Your efforts, skills, are only one part. Always recognize that maybe luck is 50% of where you get to. So that’s one, um one important uh. You know, many people have given me this advice and I do truly believe in it. That’s one. Second is the value of being patient and being persistent. You know, I I believe that over time, water will find its level. So you know, as leaders, you may not get results immediately, as fast as you want, and this is also, you know, true of career, that staying with things, being patient, being persistent, luck will fortune does smile uh on on the prepared mind, uh, therefore, and water will find its level.

Balbir Singh: 38:53

So I think these are the two things that have stuck with me, okay and what’s that one leadership myth that you think we should just get away with?

Krishnan Ramachandran: 39:01

a lot of the public, public perception, puts down organizational success to one person or one leader, which I personally think is a myth. Ultimately, organizational success is always. You know corporate world, the corporate life, is a team game. But the glorification of individual leaders as being the reason for success I personally think is a myth. You know, I think organizations that do well over time are those that have strong leaders across the board. And you know, the ceo of the company is only the face to what many, many people do. So to ascribe that abc company is doing well because they have a great ceo, I think is an absolute myth. I mean.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 39:50

That’s what the culture and the foundations play the role I mean, I guess we live in a world where you know heuristics are helpful, uh, you know making, uh, you know it makes for good media. Yeah, right, so glorifying personalities, you know, is good news, but at the end of the day, it’s a myth.

Balbir Singh: 40:13

And last question, and then we move to a quick, rapid fire what do you see as the future of the industry, the health industry, healthcare industry overall in India in the next 10 to 15 years?

Krishnan Ramachandran: 40:30

Oh, I think it is the most exciting opportunity that India is faced with as an industry. It is what you would call truly a multi-decadal growth opportunity, given the need which we spoke about. I mean it’s given the crying need which we spoke about. I mean it’s given the crying need which we spoke about, um, and the impact. I mean there is no exciting, more exciting space to be in than health insurance in our country.

Balbir Singh: 41:00

Great okay, quick, rapid fire, uh uh. Now a still scale that you think every professional must have the ability to work hard, book that you would recommend everybody to read thinking fast and slow by daniel kahneman one habit that keeps you grounded yoga. What is it that you admire the most in people?

Krishnan Ramachandran: 41:22

I think the ability to operate at 30 000 feet as well as 1000 feet. Yeah, you know, is what I would admire. Okay, you know what I’ve just told you, uh, in terms of what I’m telling any other 20 years, okay, okay, my advice to myself would be no different, I think, okay okay, and the last one uh, you know what’s that?

Balbir Singh: 41:44

uh, leadership behavior. You could, that we could see in more leaders that you meet this one trait Humility, humility. Okay, with that I think we’ll end this series of questions, thank you. Thank you for your time, krishnan, it was an honor speaking with you, and thank you everyone.

Krishnan Ramachandran: 42:04

Thank you, balbir, has been a privilege. Thank you for having me.